Well, HR and DT is somehow challenging. Instead of forcing visual mods, it's better to put HR and/or DT as the "FreeMod".
Also there are no rules about skin modifications, so it's up to everyone to make it Auto Hidden/FadeIn/Flashlight.

When will the mappool be released? And will per-song offset be allowed?

Piggy wrote: w354j

When will the mappool be released? And will per-song offset be allowed?

Live Drawings: 31 Jul 2016 14:00 UTC+0
Yes, per-song offset is allowed

Hello!

Sorry for the delay. Travelling to Spain took some time, so please give it some understanding here.
We altered the MWC4K ruleset to reflect our planned balance changes.

1. The FreeMod bracket makes you either choose between Flashlight or HardRock
2. You can now activate Hidden or FadeIn at any beatmap. These mods do not count into the FreeMod requirement

The MWC4K has the unfortunate position of overlapping with my only 2 weeks in a year where I get my vacations. So my apologies for the delay in this matter and that it took a while to announce that. We needed to figure out first, if HardRock submits properly, which took a bit.

Hahaha, being able to pick between one or the other basically means you should just have an HR bracket! HR being 1.2x versus FL being 1.1x -- the point at which player skill converges to make up that difference is probably at the point of barely ing charts.

"FreeMod"
"makes you either choose between Flashlight or HardRock"

wat

why not both :^) just kidding, man gonna pick HR for full sight rather than FL but only 1.1x wkwkwkwk

Loctav wrote: 131p2r

Hello!

Sorry for the delay. Travelling to Spain took some time, so please give it some understanding here.
We altered the MWC4K ruleset to reflect our planned balance changes.

1. The FreeMod bracket makes you either choose between Flashlight or HardRock
2. You can now activate Hidden or FadeIn at any beatmap. These mods do not count into the FreeMod requirement

The MWC4K has the unfortunate position of overlapping with my only 2 weeks in a year where I get my vacations. So my apologies for the delay in this matter and that it took a while to announce that. We needed to figure out first, if HardRock submits properly, which took a bit.

Wtf this is even worse!
First off all the multipliers of those mods (at least HR) are extremely unbalanced. Second, this is extremely unfair when there is a FL player one team. Third (as said before) this will lead to a HR bracket bcause the multipliers arent even.

Please just return to the old single-bracket system where all visual mods are free to choose.

I do have to say I like the idea of "putting the players out of the comfort zone", but neither does this determine "whos truly the best" nor is there any way you can make it work properly atm.

It's nice that you're trying to make it different from other tournaments, but this idea is just horrible.

The gap between HR and FL allows FL to be left in the dust, haha. And yeah, as LastExceed mentioned (and I never even thought about it), if there is an FL main, it's pretty messed up for them because they're forced to break away from their native mod. I suppose this cancels the fact that they'd get a multiplier regardless of what they did, but...

Visual mods are making this all screwy, heh.

It would be great if a few players who can play FL could test how much both mods affect the score, and therefore test whether the score multipliers are justified. that HR can drain the accuracy quite harshly and lead to more misses.

Ask yourself this question: if you're not an FL main -- would you rather deal with the tightened timing windows rather than the visual obstruction?

Or a better question: Do you feel that you can score what would be 900k normally, on hard rock? If you can answer yes to this question, using FL is useless. With a multiplier of 1.2x, players who can get at least 916,668 points before the HR multiplier is added will mathematically beat out a player who is using FL, even if they get a SSS (1,000,000) score prior to the multiplier. Given the level of play we're likely to experience in MWC, a huge majority of players will almost certainly be picking HR because the risk to use it is incredibly low compared to the multiplier.

The strategy would be much more interesting if you could activate both at the same time, and if the multipliers were reduced.

Why fade in is removed from freemods since both FL and FI are forcing players to lower scroll speed (FI requires to lower your scroll by around 50% and FL around 40%) and FL is actually easier for most players because of stable vision area. That is pretty nonsense in my opinion.

Adding HR is pretty bad at the moment since it doesnt change too much at all, it doesnt put players out from their comfort zone.

Actually, I liked the most the first idea where:
- freemod bracket - one of the players must choose FI or FL (without score multipliers), rest of players can play HD or nomod
- normal bracket - players are playing nomod or with HD

Now its getting worse and worse :/

Tidek wrote: 5o6f5d

Why fade in is removed from freemods since both FL and FI are forcing players to lower scroll speed (FI requires to lower your scroll by around 50% and FL around 40%) and FL is actually easier for most players because of stable vision area. That is pretty nonsense in my opinion.
Adding HR atm is pretty bad at the moment since it doesnt change too much at all, it doesnt put players out from their comfort zone.
Actually, I liked the most the first idea where:
- freemod bracket - one of the players must choose FI or FL (without score multipliers), rest of players can play HD or nomod
- normal bracket - players are playing nomod or with HD
Now its getting worse and worse :/

I agree that FI should be treated the same/similar as FL, but thats something to discuss in the V2 thread (i already made a post there). Right now we should just leave them as a free choice instead of forcing them on the players because no matter what that won't end up fair.

Its cool that they're trying to adapt MWC to v2 but since the mod-part is completely messed up right now we should leave those out for now (again: im talking about the mods, not v2 in general)

I disagree with your idea of reverting to the first idea however. Just make all 3 mods free to choose and remove the second bracket. It's too soon for that (maybe next year when v2 is more balanced regarding mod multipliers)

Conclusion:

1. I think we can all agree that HD should be free to choose since there are many players who prefer it over NoMod
2. Since there are also some FL players I'd say we should make it free to choose too (also the multiplier is yet to be discussed)
3. Im unsure about FadeIn, I leave that up to you
4. I see no point in forcing NoMod since people who prefer a visual mod will use their skin instead so you can as just leave it at free choice
5. HR multiplier is way too high atm so just leave it out of the tournament

HR has a 1.20x score multiplier (makes window tighter)
FL has 1.10x score multiplier (obstruct vision)

Most nomod players would rather pick HR since it doesn't mess with vision and also look at the multiplier, it's x2 higher...

I would rather have a MWC without the mod score multiplier but force 1 player on freemod to play with FI or FL and a nomod bracket with HD (from the beginning what everyone is agreeing to)
even though I still think people should just skin a static HD to their skin because it's better.

So, I have tested the effect of FL and HR on a few songs. These are the things I could assess.
Note: This may only apply to players who can play FL about as well as Nomod.

1. On easy songs (where you can hold a high combo easily and at worst only miss a few times), HR gives a big advantage. As long as one can hold a high combo, it will most likely result in a better HR score than FL.

2. In cases where HR makes you hold a high combo a lot harder, FL might result in a better score.
This one may apply to songs with a higher amount of long notes. LNs on HR are a LOT harder since the release timing becomes very narrow, making it harder to not miss. This shouldn't be a huge problem for players who can play LN very well.

3. On harder songs where you miss constantly, both mods could result in a better score.
This is something that might become more interesting during the finals. A good FL player could very well beat a HR player in that difficulty range.


All in all, this could be interesting, depending on what type of patterns appear in the map pools. The changes of the LN system brought in Score V2 could result in more strategic song/player choices, especially in the later stages.
My recommendation would be to look into more LN heavy maps to include in the map pool, if there won't be any more changes.

lol

The structure has to be tested in practice somewhere - it just happens to be this MWC - I can agree that there was too little time to test everything enough, but to call a tourney dead or broken just because it has a new set of rules, is outright stupid.
If you can't play by the rules and instead just want to rant about it everywhere then I would recommend just not g up.
I can understand not liking the changes, you may have valid reasoning for that as well, but requesting a revert to old set of rules because some people dislike it is uncalled for in my opinion. How about just play along and see how it goes so we can learn from it and adjust the rules to be better for the next MWC?

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

I can understand not liking the changes, you may have valid reasoning for that as well, but requesting a revert to old set of rules because some people dislike it is uncalled for in my opinion. How about just play along and see how it goes so we can learn from it and adjust the rules to be better for the next MWC?

I was actually looking for people who do like it in particular because I am interested in pro-arguments, but i honestly wasn't able to find ANYONE. The only opinion that somewhat goes into that direction is rohen04's "it could be interesting" (which you find on this thread).

The thing is that its not SOME people who don't like it, but EVERYONE. I can't even find any pro arguments, seems like this really IS a devs playground for testing. And theres even set up a 1900$ price pool for it wtf.

I've been looking forward to this forever, there's no way I'm gonna resign now.

Btw why has my previous post been removed and why wasn't i notified?

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

I can understand not liking the changes, you may have valid reasoning for that as well, but requesting a revert to old set of rules because some people dislike it is uncalled for in my opinion. How about just play along and see how it goes so we can learn from it and adjust the rules to be better for the next MWC?

I was actually looking for people who do like it in particular because I am interested in pro-arguments, but i honestly wasn't able to find ANYONE. The only opinion that somewhat goes into that direction is rohen04's it could be interesting (which you find on this thread).

The thing is that its not SOME people who don't like it, but EVERYONE. I can't even find any pro arguments, seems like this really IS a devs playground for testing. And theres even set up a 1900$ price pool for it wtf.

I've been looking forward to this forever, there's no way I'm gonna resign now.

Btw why has my post been removed and why wasn't i notified?

Maybe !faq douche? I dont really know.

Leaving that aside we are at a point where changing rules WONT happen (or at least not likely). There is about 2 weeks until MWC 4K starts and making more changes will affect players and they wont have the time to get used to it.

I will use myself as an example, I am considering going FL+HR if it is allowed and I am still not sure if it is worth training because the rules are yet not as clear. And if they end up changing more stuff I will likely wont have enought time to get used to it (I already spent some time training FL while I shouldnt because HR is more worth so far at least).

Consider making some constructive for the MWC 7K and the next 4K cup as well. Just try to enjoy this one and if you feel the rules dont suit you, just dont . Noone will complain about it!

Then at least rename this to "scoreV2 testing rournament" because this has nothing to do with "finding out whos truly the best".
You're bringing up a score system that raises the value of combo and then force the usage of HR on maps that are already all about acc.

I really have to hold back from plain insulting everyone here right now, simply because of the lack of arguments

Raw skill will always edge out in the end. And there is nothing wrong with score v2 except the multipliers which might need some more adjusting (going to test some things out and make a post later today).
And if you want to go into insulting because there are actually people who disagree with you, then I think I should just stop posting. Not worth it.

That's why I'm not doing it. I don't say scoreV2 is bad overall, I actually like it. It's just (as you said yourself) that the mod multipliers are completely ridiculous so I just don't see the point in involving them into a World championship.

If you want me to stop posting, then provide a single solid argument, because

1. "it's too late now" is just the result of not giving an argument for a long enough time
2. "we need to test v2 somewhere" has nothing to do with an official tournament.
3. "raw skill will edge out in the end" is plain wrong (/u/lEdelWeiss and me are the perfect example: He has excellent accuracy which is why have no chance on easy maps against him, while I usually beat him on hard maps. Now who's the better one?)

Still wanna know why that post was deleted.

Reply to LastExceed:

"Raw skill will edge out in the end is plain wrong" is plain wrong, because neither you nor the person you reference is really at the end. You forgot to take the limits. (Jakads: hope you pardon my savage, but) even jakads and j<beep> is not in the end.

FrenzyLi wrote: 4z6m8

Reply to LastExceed:

"Raw skill will edge out in the end is plain wrong" is plain wrong, because neither you nor the person you reference is really at the end. You forgot to take the limits. (Jakads hope you pardon my savage, but) even jakads and j<beep> is not in the end.

Ok forget that example i made. Though i have trouble understanding yours...

Reply to LastExceed:

From my point of view, the single argument against your "rage posts" (posts containing rage) at the current time could be:

1. Just don't rage due to the fact that this is a dev test ground with prizes.

There is no argument against you posting ordinary non-rage posts at the current time. I think you're still welcomed in this discussion as long as you do not express rage; for example, I like to read your post in the scorev2 thread.

Also, respect privacy rights of other people. I would exercise caution when I post chat logs, for example.

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

If you want me to stop posting, then provide a single solid argument, because

1. "it's too late now" is just the result of not giving an argument for a long enough time Is a result of not having enough time to properly test everything, arguments were given even before the thread was made iirc
2. "we need to test v2 somewhere" has nothing to do with an official tournament. If you make a new weapon, testing it on a shooting range will not give you enough data about it, you need to test it in actual combat (even if improvised). That's exactly the case here, the format is being tested in practice to see how well it does and to take lessons from it so it can be refined and polished for the next one.
3. "raw skill will edge out in the end" is plain wrong (/u/lEdelWeiss and me are the perfect example: He has excellent accuracy which is why have no chance on easy maps against him, while I usually beat him on hard maps. Now who's the better one?) EdelWeiss has a raw skill advantage on easier stages and you have on later stages, in a tournament setting that makes you equal assuming that the diffrences between you are similar. Teams consist of 6 players, if you have players who can do good and edge out opposition on specific stages, then they are still going to win even with those new rules. As stated before (somewhere): the world champions should be able to play absolutely everything by themselves or as a team.

Sorry if my arguments are not good enough btw, I have trouble forming them at this hour (also my mind is more on the mappicking and other various stuff atm)

FrenzyLi wrote: 4z6m8

Reply to LastExceed:

From my point of view, the single argument against your "rage posts" (posts containing rage) at the current time could be:

1. Just don't rage due to the fact that this is a dev test ground with prizes.

There is no argument against you posting ordinary non-rage posts at the current time. I think you're still welcomed in this discussion as long as you do not express rage; for example, I like to read your post in the scorev2 thread.

Thank you. I'm gonna go for now and try to calm down.

take your time -Kamikaze-.

FrenzyLi wrote: 4z6m8

Also, respect privacy rights of other people. I would exercise caution when I post chat logs, for example.

Oh so that's why. Yeah forgot about that.

As Kamikaze said we will do some testings tomorrow to see what can we do. I still think changing stuff now is a nope for the low amount of time that we do have but worth the shot.

How about if you also try to give some data and input related to that? Like people already said, your post was just some images telling how bad this is without real arguments and if I have to guess thats why it was deleted.

We will see what do we find tomorrow

Somewhat tangential, but also somewhat related... is there going to be anyway to play/practice on Score v2 outside of multiplayer before the tournament? I find this to be a bit of a hurdle for getting accustomed to the new changes, and I don't particularly enjoy having to play with others when I want to practice on my own. I can't control my targeted sessions that way. =/

Halogen- wrote: 6k4366

Somewhat tangential, but also somewhat related... is there going to be anyway to play/practice on Score v2 outside of multiplayer before the tournament? I find this to be a bit of a hurdle for getting accustomed to the new changes, and I don't particularly enjoy having to play with others when I want to practice on my own. I can't control my targeted sessions that way. =/

Not only that, you have to be a er as well.
It should be possible to start a MP match by yourself, and Score V2 should be included in the stable release. Other than that, it is very hard to prepare well for the matches.

rohen04 wrote: 1y3u3q

Not only that, you have to be a er as well

Nope, scoreV2 is also available on the beta stream which is free for everyone.

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

rohen04 wrote: 1y3u3q

Not only that, you have to be a er as well

Nope, scoreV2 is also available on the beta stream which is free for everyone.

Just tested it, didn't work (I might've messed up something tho, idk, needs confirmation)

I didn't it myself, it's just what loctav said in the official scoreV2 thread t/375428

That's for std tho, mania's v2 might not be in beta yet

oh ok

Mfw my country has only one kind of relevant player in mania

juankristal wrote: 4hft

As Kamikaze said we will do some testings tomorrow to see what can we do. I still think changing stuff now is a nope for the low amount of time that we do have but worth the shot.

How about if you also try to give some data and input related to that? Like people already said, your post was just some images telling how bad this is without real arguments and if I have to guess thats why it was deleted.

We will see what do we find tomorrow

ok first of all I wanna apologize for my rude behaviour, I was upset and acted carelessly.
Second, I think I mentioned enough con-arguments, but I can list the main ones again:
- since some people see visual mods as handicap while others find them helpful it would strongly depend on the type of player a country is represented by instead of their actual skill
- banning mods in the default bracket makes no sense other than upsetting players who prefer them since they can be skinned anyway so you can just leave them in
- mod multipliers are very unbalanced atm and overall yet to be discussed
- it makes no sense to give a choice between 2 mods that have different multipliers
- the absolute majority of players doesn't like this system overall (its your choice whether you make this tournament for the community or for development purposes)

I'd rather say it's your turn to give some pro-arguments. the only one I recall atm is "we need to test scoreV2 somehow", which brings us back to con-argument #5.

Also, what about the testing results you mentioned?

EDIT: btw am I allowed to pick HD/FI ADDITIONALLY in the mod bracket when I decide to pick HR?

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

ok first of all I wanna apologize for my rude behaviour, I was upset and acted carelessly.
Second, I think I mentioned enough con-arguments, but I can list the main ones again:
- since some people see visual mods as handicap while others find them helpful it would strongly depend on the type of player a country is represented by instead of their actual skill
- banning mods in the default bracket makes no sense other than upsetting players who prefer them since they can be skinned anyway so you can just leave them in
- mod multipliers are very unbalanced atm and overall yet to be discussed
- it makes no sense to give a choice between 2 mods that have different multipliers
- the absolute majority of players doesn't like this system overall (its your choice whether you make this tournament for the community or for development purposes)

I'd rather say it's your turn to give some pro-arguments. the only one I recall atm is "we need to test scoreV2 somehow", which brings us back to con-argument #5.

Also, what about the testing results you mentioned?

EDIT: btw am I allowed to pick HD/FI ADDITIONALLY in the mod bracket when I decide to pick HR?

Okay so:
#1 - That is fine in my opinion because 1) that's still a part of tactics around the tournament to either get a player to learn the mod or pick one who already can do the mod 2) people who find those mods to be helpful more often than not will struggle on nomod so you have a drawback either way

#2 - Those mods are banned (or moved to nomod rather) exactly because they can be skinned away and the effects of them can be neglected or neutralized by a decent amount. While I personally would leave FI in, that's staff's decision and I understand it

#3 - They are not yet to be discussed, they have been discussed and after I've tested some things (p/5317537 and presented it to smoogi he said the multipliers will be adjusted

#4 - That's arguable, while that is a valid point, I personally think that the harshness of the timing windows on OD10 + HR (+/- 24,5ms for 300, +/- 11,5ms for a max) warrants a slightly bigger multiplier to reward top tier accuracy more

#5 - I don't find that argument, or at least the back half of it a good excuse to just abandon all changes. People are afraid of changes, especially when you're changing something that has roots VERY deep in the community. I also can bet that half of the players hating on the changes didn't test it and just saw screens of the first version with 500k S score and other type of broken things alongside, while they may not be aware of all the changes and adjustments that have been done to v2 since then

And yes, you can use HD/FI alongside HR (since HD/FI and FL cancel out eachother) in freemod, they just count the same as nomod.

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

ok first of all I wanna apologize for my rude behaviour, I was upset and acted carelessly.
Second, I think I mentioned enough con-arguments, but I can list the main ones again:
- since some people see visual mods as handicap while others find them helpful it would strongly depend on the type of player a country is represented by instead of their actual skill
- banning mods in the default bracket makes no sense other than upsetting players who prefer them since they can be skinned anyway so you can just leave them in
- mod multipliers are very unbalanced atm and overall yet to be discussed
- it makes no sense to give a choice between 2 mods that have different multipliers
- the absolute majority of players doesn't like this system overall (its your choice whether you make this tournament for the community or for development purposes)

I'd rather say it's your turn to give some pro-arguments. the only one I recall atm is "we need to test scoreV2 somehow", which brings us back to con-argument #5.

Also, what about the testing results you mentioned?

EDIT: btw am I allowed to pick HD/FI ADDITIONALLY in the mod bracket when I decide to pick HR?

Okay so:
#1 - That is fine in my opinion because 1) that's still a part of tactics around the tournament to either get a player to learn the mod or pick one who already can do the mod 2) people who find those mods to be helpful more often than not will struggle on nomod so you have a drawback either way

#2 - Those mods are banned (or moved to nomod rather) exactly because they can be skinned away and the effects of them can be neglected or neutralized by a decent amount. While I personally would leave FI in, that's staff's decision and I understand it

#3 - They are not yet to be discussed, they have been discussed and after I've tested some things (p/5317537 and presented it to smoogi he said the multipliers will be adjusted

#4 - That's arguable, while that is a valid point, I personally think that the harshness of the timing windows on OD10 + HR (+/- 24,5ms for 300, +/- 11,5ms for a max) warrants a slightly bigger multiplier to reward top tier accuracy more

#5 - I don't find that argument, or at least the back half of it a good excuse to just abandon all changes. People are afraid of changes, especially when you're changing something that has roots VERY deep in the community. I also can bet that half of the players hating on the changes didn't test it and just saw screens of the first version with 500k S score and other type of broken things alongside, while they may not be aware of all the changes and adjustments that have been done to v2 since then

And yes, you can use HD/FI alongside HR (since HD/FI and FL cancel out eachother) in freemod, they just count the same as nomod.

Aaah this is the kind of reply i've been looking for all the time, thank you so much
I have trouble understanding #2 though, how can visual mods be neglected via skin and why is that a reason to bann them? (since they dont give any score advantage)?

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

I still dont understand how that would eliminate the visual handucap because your screen would still be covered. Adding a skinned cover would even increase the handicap since that way you have maximum shadow ALL THE TIME. I do understand the judgement line thing you mentioned for FI though.
But even if it was possible to completely remove the shadow and regain full vision, why is that a reason to bann the mod? Theres no advantage to it

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

I still dont understand how that would eliminate the visual handucap because your screen would still be covered. Adding a skinned cover would even increase the handicap since that way you have maximum shadow ALL THE TIME. I do understand the judgement line thing you mentioned for FI though.
But even if it was possible to completely remove the shadow and regain full vision, why is that a reason to bann the mod? Theres no advantage to it

The shadow distance is not the largest inhibitor for everyone - it's the shadow changing position that turns out to be an issue.

Halogen- wrote: 6k4366

The shadow distance is not the largest inhibitor for everyone - it's the shadow changing position that turns out to be an issue.

Oh really? Didn't know that o.O
But still, I don't see why this is a reason to bann the mod, there's still no advangage to it.

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

Thats why FL is easier for most people because of stable vision area so you dont need any lanecovers.

I dont know whether staff realize that FI doesnt help in reading for 99,9% people even with lanecovers about staff is scared (heh, make FL vision area combo dependent and almost everyone will make lane covers for it) and make FL as a pick in freemod bracket (with score multiplier) that is significantly easier for most people than FI (we have also FL mains) is totally absurd.

Yes, I feel better with FI than with FL because my reading is focused on top of the screen (upscroll) so FL is unplayable for me and putting FI free to pick in nomod bracket is like saying "fu*k you" to those people because they will do better without mods and automatically put them on worse position in freemod bracket.

Atm its totally favourzing players who are more capable with FL, unfortunately.

Tidek wrote: 5o6f5d

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

You can completely nullify the effect of cover increasing wiith combo and tbh you don't even need a skin for it, you can use your shirt, a piece of paper or whatever, and due to mods not being tied to hitposition of the skin, you can lower hitposition to the very bottom of your screen for FI and gain a lot more room to read.

Thats why FL is easier for most people because of stable vision area so you dont need any lanecovers.

I dont know whether staff realize that FI doesnt help in reading for 99,9% people even with lanecovers about staff is scared (heh, make FL vision area combo dependent and almost everyone will make lane covers for it) and make FL as a pick in freemod bracket (with score multiplier) that is significantly easier for most people than FI (we have also FL mains) is totally absurd.

Yes, I feel better with FI than with FL because my reading is focused on top of the screen (upscroll) so FL is unplayable for me and putting FI free to pick in nomod bracket is like saying "fu*k you" to those people because they will do better without mods and automatically put them on worse position in freemod bracket.

Atm its totally favourzing players who are more capable with FL, unfortunately.

Yeah, but as long FL+HR is not playable you can always pick HR and win anyways. Yeah, it hits your accuracy but idk.

I just mean that vision mods are not balanced, people who are not able to read FL but can read other vision mods (that is FI) are automatically put in lose position.

Allowing only 1 vision mod because the rest is "broken" doesnt make sense, its fawourizig people who are able to play FL. Allow all vision mods in freemod (except HD) or disallow all of them. We want balanced tournament or not?

I'm gonna restate my request: Can you please allow the usage of HD/FI in both brackets or name a reason why you won't do it?

Edit: nvm i'm stupid

I'm pretty sure what Loctav said means you can use them in both, the only difference is that HD/FI do not satisfy the requirement of mods used in free mod. That means that you could have a team doing no mod, no mod, HR and satisfy the condition of it because of the HR player, but you can't have a team doing no mod, no mod, HD because HD is not considered eligible for qualifying for FM. One of the players would need to add either HR/FL (obviously will be HR because HD + FL = nope).

Halogen- wrote: 6k4366

I'm pretty sure what Loctav said means you can use them in both, the only difference is that HD/FI do not satisfy the requirement of mods used in free mod. That means that you could have a team doing no mod, no mod, HR and satisfy the condition of it because of the HR player, but you can't have a team doing no mod, no mod, HD because HD is not considered eligible for qualifying for FM. One of the players would need to add either HR/FL (obviously will be HR because HD + FL = nope).

Oops you're right o.O nvm then

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

FI on upscroll does the exact same thing as on downscroll. And why FI? Because FI unlike HD forces you to cut your scroll speed to about 40% just to be able to read it properly. On HD, you're using a scroll speed relatively close to your nomod scroll so it's not that hard to learn it. However FI requires a lot more practice.
Also for the "who even plays FI" question - everyone who has their focus point on the screen (the area where you look at notes) below middle and/or people who play on relatively slow scroll speed. If you have your focus point directly in the middle, FL will be better for you, but if you look lower - FI is the way. I myself prefer FI over FL actually.

surely you want to take players out of their comfort zone, however, did you know some of the players have been playing HD for many years and they will be forced to switch to nomod just because of the rules of this tournament? They will never compare with hardcore nomod players since they will not have enough time to practice or they do not have enough experience. Also if you think in the opposite way its also true as nomod players will never hit as accurate compared to pro HD players since it is not their best ability to play with such mod. This is why its not fair at all. I believe the better way to do is to release the scoreV2 however give a certain amount of time for players to adjust their skill sets (maybe a few months or even a year) so mostly everyone will be on the same level. Just my opinion.

blackout3015 wrote: 41u3n

...

Quoted from the announcement:

Optionally, everyone can activate Hidden or FadeIn at any map they choose.

I know not everyone is gonna agree with this but.
I think having scoreV2 in official MWC would be a really fun experience, you know why? because think about the ''challenges'' you are facing as a player that way, getting everyone off their comfort zone, where everyone could have an advantage (or not) on a lot of things, it would be a truly significant experience to people in this MWC. If you're not a wuss about loosing your precious ''prize and profile badge' then this might be the best thing that could come to you as a player, i'm pretty sure winning a tourney when you're that high leveled in skillset you'd be pretty much bored and wouldn't find it

remotely interesting at all. plus on the other hand this could actually furthen the development for our beloved game mode, it would be pretty hilarious seeing one of the top 4k players getting these absurd scores and would be pretty entertaining to watch from viewers perspective aswell imo, so yeah i'm not really doubting the staffs choices on it at all, it's something i'm looking forward to see and lmao.

Soul Evans wrote: h5p5u

I know not everyone is gonna agree with this but.
I think having scoreV2 in official MWC would be a really fun experience, you know why? because think about the ''challenges'' you are facing as a player that way, getting everyone off their comfort zone, where everyone could have an advantage (or not) on a lot of things, it would be a truly significant experience to people in this MWC. If you're not a wuss about loosing your precious ''prize and profile badge' then this might be the best thing that could come to you as a player, i'm pretty sure winning a tourney when you're that high leveled in skillset you'd be pretty much bored and wouldn't find it

remotely interesting at all. plus on the other hand this could actually furthen the development for our beloved game mode, it would be pretty hilarious seeing one of the top 4k players getting these absurd scores and would be pretty entertaining to watch from viewers perspective aswell imo, so yeah i'm not really doubting the staffs choices on it at all, it's something i'm looking forward to see and lmao.

was the bolded part really necessary

Halogen- wrote: 6k4366

Soul Evans wrote: h5p5u

I know not everyone is gonna agree with this but.
I think having scoreV2 in official MWC would be a really fun experience, you know why? because think about the ''challenges'' you are facing as a player that way, getting everyone off their comfort zone, where everyone could have an advantage (or not) on a lot of things, it would be a truly significant experience to people in this MWC. If you're not a wuss about loosing your precious ''prize and profile badge' then this might be the best thing that could come to you as a player, i'm pretty sure winning a tourney when you're that high leveled in skillset you'd be pretty much bored and wouldn't find it

remotely interesting at all. plus on the other hand this could actually furthen the development for our beloved game mode, it would be pretty hilarious seeing one of the top 4k players getting these absurd scores and would be pretty entertaining to watch from viewers perspective aswell imo, so yeah i'm not really doubting the staffs choices on it at all, it's something i'm looking forward to see and lmao.

was the bolded part really necessary

Was trying to look at it from a top player's perspective i mean, the whole point of the tourney should be competing and challenging yourself am i wrong?
And i find it pretty stupid to fear over score v2 because you wouldn't win easily.

Was trying to look at it from a top player's perspective i mean, the whole point of the tourney should be competing and challenging yourself am i wrong?
And i find it pretty stupid to fear over score v2 because you wouldn't win easily.[/quote]

You are completely wrong... Yes i get it for people like you are not predicted to be finalists can say that its not about winning, but did you think about the ones like Halogen- and his other teammates who have already won one championship and due to the change in rules they might not be able to win again. Did you watch the 2015 4k world cup? I mean they definitely deserved it, from the accuracy, the combo and the score, they defeated every single country in this world. They did not just win because they followed the rules or better at manipulating it by finding the best player for certain mods etc. So if you think in their persepctive, every one of them wants to win and its the reason why they took the hassle to sign up and even create a thread like this, you get me? Competitiveness is already real.

blackout3015 wrote: 41u3n

Was trying to look at it from a top player's perspective i mean, the whole point of the tourney should be competing and challenging yourself am i wrong?
And i find it pretty stupid to fear over score v2 because you wouldn't win easily.

You are completely wrong... Yes i get it for people like you are not predicted to be finalists can say that its not about winning, but did you think about the ones like Halogen- and his other teammates who have already won one championship and due to the change in rules they might not be able to win again. Did you watch the 2015 4k world cup? I mean they definitely deserved it, from the accuracy, the combo and the score, they defeated every single country in this world. They did not just win because they followed the rules or better at manipulating it by finding the best player for certain mods etc. So if you think in their persepctive, every one of them wants to win and its the reason why they took the hassle to sign up and even create a thread like this, you get me? Competitiveness is already real.

gah... you didn't quite get the point either.

The point that I was insinuating off of my post is that I'm actually extremely open to the changes and have no issue dealing with them, regardless of whether or not it affects me or the rest of my team. that I am someone who is an open advocate to score v2, and I am also an advocate that is quite critical and wanting to help in the process by testing, whether that testing involves data or actual play.

But it's not about that: the change in rules is just an additional challenge that I personally appreciate, it's just... not refined. For me, it has nothing to do with winning, and that's why I highlighted the bold part. Winning or losing doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that everyone has a good time, disagreements with the rules aside. It should be a reasonably level playing field.

This is exactly what this specific mwc needs actually, people like you AJ, but that might not be the case for everyone however i was just pointing out that there can be ~those~ kind of mindset as to why they dislike ScoreV2 being featured in this years tourney.

This tournament should be called "V2 tournament" instead of "world cup", just as the brackets should be called "free-bracket" and "mod-bracket" instead of "NoMod" and "FreeMod", because

1. winning a tournament that is about something new/a specific cathegory doesnt make you a "champion" in general
2. a bracket where FI/HD are optional isnt NoMod
3. a bracket where you're forced to use a mod isn't FreeMod

It's not bad the way it is, the names are just very misleading.

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

This tournament should be called "V2 tournament" instead of "world cup", just as the brackets should be called "free-bracket" and "mod-bracket" instead of "NoMod" and "FreeMod", because

1. winning a tournament that is about something new/a specific cathegory doesnt make you a "champion" in general
2. a bracket where FI/HD are optional isnt NoMod
3. a bracket where you're forced to use a mod isn't FreeMod

It's not bad the way it is, the names are just very misleading.

That shouldn't matter that much since everyone basically knows of ''scoreV2'' and they probably checked the wiki / all teams should've read the rules to understand what's going on.

Hii, i'm 2k full 4k, can i go for the MWC :3
And btw, only 1 team allowed ?

LeHuuks wrote: 542w4z

Hii, i'm 2k full 4k, can i go for the MWC :3
And btw, only 1 team allowed ?

bit late mate. registrations have already closed. and yes, it's one 1 per country

Oh shit :/ is there any other way to rgister or its closed closed ?

LeHuuks wrote: 542w4z

Oh shit :/ is there any other way to rgister or its closed closed ?

its closed closed. you're way too late.

Why wasn't there an announcement for s in the client?

I've seriously been waiting a long time to sign up, only to find they've already closed...

What.

So there is seriously nothing I can do? Im screwed?

-Classy wrote: 5h4n

Why wasn't there an announcement for s in the client?

I've seriously been waiting a long time to sign up, only to find they've already closed...

What.

So there is seriously nothing I can do? Im screwed?

to be fair, you wouldn't even be in the team anyways

edit: yea you have a point for the cilent thing on foresight

-Classy wrote: 5h4n

Why wasn't there an announcement for s in the client?

I've seriously been waiting a long time to sign up, only to find they've already closed...

What.

So there is seriously nothing I can do? Im screwed?

There was an announcement in the news section here since nearly a month ago though. That probably would've sufficed

Cryolien wrote: 4r394q

here was an announcement in the news section here since nearly a month ago though. That probably would've sufficed

-Classy does have a point in here since all other world cups were announced both in the client AND in the news feed.

LastExceed wrote: 1q1132

Cryolien wrote: 4r394q

here was an announcement in the news section here since nearly a month ago though. That probably would've sufficed

-Classy does have a point in here since all other world cups were announced both in the client AND in the news feed.

Oh, that's my bad then.whoops

Rolling out the first teams to the wiki.

On a side note, I believe score v2 is now available on Stable, too. Keep in mind that if you use Fallback, you won't be able to play.

I am already shaking

Just asking, did Venezuela qualify to take part in this year's MWC 4k?

juankristal wrote: 4hft

I am already shaking

You can at least do something decent ^^.
I am just a casual newb ing by.

Is it allowed that I will be in another country when the cup is happening?

Piggy wrote: w354j

Is it allowed that I will be in another country when the cup is happening?

it isn't allowed since few years ago for official tournaments

Piggy wrote: w354j

Is it allowed that I will be in another country when the cup is happening?

You can reside wherever you are, what matters alone is your profile flag. However, if your entire team is in Canada and you are in China, I hardly can have the match times align properly for you and the rest of your team, so be aware that I can't take your unusual timezone (relative to your team) into consideration.

commentators are now on the wiki for those interested. i'm sure there'll be a few names there many of you will know

SOFT squad assembled o7

-Kamikaze- wrote: 713c65

SOFT squad assembled o7

Loctav
Hello
I am from Macao OSU！Mania！ Player.
I world like to ask you about this 4k World Cup.
I have entered the competition.
But why the Players list without me.
My ID is InBigSister

InBigSister wrote: 4h3110

Loctav
Hello
I am from Macao OSU！Mania！ Player.
I world like to ask you about this 4k World Cup.
I have entered the competition.
But why the Players list without me.
My ID is InBigSister

I think you should [email protected] tho it might be a bit late at this moment.

The wiki is updated now! check it out!

A very minor detail, Chile now uses UTC-4, it changes back to UTC-3 on August, 13th.

why

WalterToro wrote: 5u4j5p

A very minor detail, Chile now uses UTC-4, it changes back to UTC-3 on August, 13th.

I'll keep that in mind for the future stages!

Hello i've got a question and it is how can i enter? Im #5 in spain but im not in but i see a #24 and he is in the team...

Grek69 wrote: 5x2l5v

Hello i've got a question and it is how can i enter? Im #5 in spain but im not in but i see a #24 and he is in the team...

You were suppose to go here and but it ended already if you look at the date for the Registration Phase (28 Jun - 17 Jul 2016) it already ended. Pretty much you're too late.

Can we use the fallback version on the mwc? Does the score couldl be changed if we use this version?

If this is going to be SPFT rippoff....... Where are the pink fluffy unicorns?

Is this now good or...?

lim38 wrote: h47e

Can we use the fallback version on the mwc? Does the score couldl be changed if we use this version?

You need to use at least Stable for the MWC. You cant use fallback.

Feerum wrote: 6d1t2c

Is this now good or...?

I NEVER BREAK MY PROMISES

ok

Feerum wrote: 6d1t2c

Is this now good or...?

Pretty sure that this is a binding contract by law. Pretty sure.

juankristal wrote: 4hft

lim38 wrote: h47e

Can we use the fallback version on the mwc? Does the score couldl be changed if we use this version?

You need to use at least Stable for the MWC. You cant use fallback.

Okay thanks, because my accuracy is less good than the Fallback version. Need to play on Stable version to try to fix it.

lim38 wrote: h47e

Okay thanks, because my accuracy is less good than the Fallback version. Need to play on Stable version to try to fix it.

Thats because V2 is not implemented on fallback. So when you have songs that are OD8 or higher the accuracy room is tighter.

juankristal wrote: 4hft

lim38 wrote: h47e

Okay thanks, because my accuracy is less good than the Fallback version. Need to play on Stable version to try to fix it.

Thats because V2 is not implemented on fallback. So when you have songs that are OD8 or higher the accuracy room is tighter.

Yeah I know, but my latency is different between those versions.

fuck too late to sign up

owenviau1 wrote: 5q224u

fuck too late to sign up

keep calm

dont worry im ok, still in the FFR tourney

Waiting for Korea vs. USA GF's like